It鈥檚 difficult to sum up the accomplished culinary career of Jonathan Waxman. His is one that has spanned two continents, more than three decades and multiple mediums. His first foray into the American restaurant scene was after returning from training in France to his hometown of Berkeley, California, where he cooked at the pioneering restaurant, Chez Panisse. It was there that he forged a strong friendship with Alice Waters and grew more attached to fresh-from-the-soil ingredients. After a brief stint at Michael鈥檚 in Santa Monica, he left the West Coast thirty years ago and headed to New York City where his first mentor was none other than the legendary chef of Lut猫ce, Andr茅 Soltner.
Waxman himself has mentored many celebrated chefs including Tom Colicchio and Bobby Flay. He is considered an innovator and one of the founding fathers of new-American cuisine, earning him comparisons in the music world to Eric Clapton by Los Angeles Times critic, Jonathan Gold. More recently chef Waxman returned to the limelight with appearances on Bravo TV鈥檚 Top Chef Masters where he was eliminated in the penultimate episode, coming in fourth place. He spoke to us just after Hurricane Sandy pummeled the east coast about the unexpected challenges restaurant owners face, his thoughts on the current role chefs play in pop culture, and the key to longevity in the industry.
We have to start with the front-page news. Your restaurant Barbuto is one block from Zone A. How did you fare during Superstorm Sandy?
I think we were sort of unprepared for how devastating this storm surge was. I looked at every weather report and I thought we knew what we were doing. But what we had in mind was what had happened last year with Irene, and we were a little bit taken by surprise. The amount of water that came up 12th Street was phenomenal鈥攊t was like a mini-tsunami. We had covered up all the storm hatches and I picked everything up, and it was dry. My dining room was dry, and then we went down to the basement and there was about eight to ten inches of water. But since the power was off, we actually had to get it out by hand. My staff was fantastic. But the problem was it was saltwater and it kept coming back.
I read, despite power outages, the restaurant managed to do dinner service?
We did a little neighborhood thing on Tuesday night to feed people because no one could eat. Everyone was walking up 19 floors to their apartments in pitch black and we were able to get food deliveries, so we were able to feed people鈥攁nd everybody can eat chicken. It was a nice thing to do, but then I realized the next day that the neighborhood was getting too dangerous for my staff. It was a ghost town and it was just really scary.
Speaking of challenging situations, you have been a cheftestant on Top Chef Masters twice. How did that come about?
Sarah Abell, from Baltz and Co., and I have done a lot of events together and I just adore her. She called me up and said, 鈥淚 want you to do Top Chef Masters鈥 and I basically said, 鈥淕o take a flying leap.鈥 And she said, 鈥淣o, no, Jonathan, you should do it.鈥 She kept bugging me, and I kept saying, 鈥淣o, no, no.鈥 And one day, she just got really frustrated, and she called [Tom] Colicchio up and Colicchio called me up and said, 鈥淛ust [expletive] do it.鈥
So are you glad you did it?
Honestly, it was a wonderful experience. There are a lot of reasons why I said it鈥檚 wonderful. Number one, I got to hang out with my buddies in a very intimate environment for a long time. Number two, it wasn鈥檛 that difficult. Number three, the production crew at Magical Elves is an amazing group. They really took care of us and made sure we were having a good time. It was a good experience, soup to nuts.
What have been the long-term effects of being on the show?
People actually know who I am again. Mary Sue Milliken and I had this whole conversation about it, and she said, 鈥淒o we have to be on national TV to sort of prove our merit as chefs?鈥 And I said, 鈥淚n a funny way, yes.鈥 That鈥檚 kind of what it is. That鈥檚 how you get on people鈥檚 radar. That鈥檚 not a bad thing, not a bad thing at all.
Years ago, when Bobby Flay started getting popular on TV, and obviously, he worked with me for a long time, people would come up to me and say, 鈥淲ell, aren鈥檛 you jealous of Bobby?鈥 I would say, 鈥淭he exact opposite, I鈥檓 so happy for him.鈥
He also was the person that carved the pathway for everybody else. You know, I just did something for my son鈥檚 school today and as I was leaving this little kid comes up to me, maybe in second grade, and says, 鈥淚 wanna be a chef one day!鈥 Isn鈥檛 that the cutest thing in the world? But think about it: It is so good for the industry to have this kind of exposure where kids in America can look at being a chef as a great profession. It really is amazing.
And now you鈥檝e crossed into television drama with your appearance on HBO鈥檚 Treme. Was it odd to pretend to dine with your fellow chefs?
It was kind of funny. You鈥檙e with a production crew that is phenomenal. There鈥檚 such an amazing connection between the talent and the production and the ergonomics of how they film things and lighting and everything else鈥擨 was really privileged, to be honest with you.
There are a lot of similarities between television production and the restaurant business in terms of organization. How do you think the two mirror each other?
I think you hit the nail on the head. The best restaurants are 100 percent collaborative. A restaurant really is a dictatorship at the end of the day, it鈥檚 one person鈥檚 vision. But, one person who understands how to get people to work together and have a common goal.
How do you view chefs鈥 current role in pop culture? Are chefs stepping too far out of the restaurant kitchen?
If you get to a certain point in your career and people know who you are, and you have certain notoriety鈥攜ou are an ambassador. No matter how you think about it. The best ambassador in the world is Alice Waters. She鈥檚 going around the country, and around the world, talking about edible gardens and eating beautiful foods and celebrating farmers and all this stuff. It鈥檚 a different role than cooking on the line and creating dishes, but it鈥檚 kind of the same thing. It鈥檚 just a different way of approaching it. But they are part and parcel of the same, I believe. When I used to watch Julia Child or Graham Kerr they were really ambassadors in a different way, introducing America to food.
Jams, your first restaurant in New York, opened nearly three decades ago. If you were to rewind the clock to 1983 what do you cherish most about those times?
It鈥檚 funny, I鈥檓 actually writing a little bit of my memoirs right now. You always look back with rose-colored glasses, that鈥檚 just the way life is. But what I do remember is how na茂ve we were. How we had to figure things out for ourselves because we had no access to information. Now with TV and with everything else, there鈥檚 so much access to different kinds of information. In 1983, did I know anything about Thai cuisine, or did I know anything about real Mexican cuisine? No. We would discover little bits and pieces of it. There were no ingredients to be had. You had to fight to get anything. Fresh fish was a huge problem. Getting a whole spring lamb? Forget about it, where the hell did you get that in those days? Now people almost yawn when they talk: 鈥淲ell, yeah, I got these little baby suckling pigs and I鈥檝e got this special balsamic vinegar from this little limited production in Modena.鈥 Back in the day, you were lucky to even know what balsamic vinegar was.
Do you think some of that discovery element is missing now?
I think what鈥檚 missing a little bit, especially when I go to France, are the traditions. I miss the regionalism of what France was. I鈥檒l go to these restaurants and everybody serves eclectic cuisine. I really want to go to places and have Cassoulet. I think that will come around. But what I鈥檓 afraid of is that a lot of people, especially in France, basically all want to be venture capitalists in Silicon Valley rather than work in a restaurant. I understand that. It鈥檚 more exciting! Who wants to work in a kitchen? With long hours and sweating. I think we鈥檒l go back to what I call 鈥渁rtissimo effects鈥 of wanting to learn how to make the perfect confit of duck. Or back to Italy and making that gorgeous pasta by hand.
What was that moment for you?
I think the greatest joy for me was finding that perfect peach from Frog Hollow Farms. Alice [Waters] had found this great peach and she let me taste it and it was the greatest thing I ever ate in my life. It was perfect.
Your original focus was on seasonal, New-American cuisine, as with your restaurant Washington Park. Then you opened Barbuto which is decisively Italian and recognized as your sweet spot. Now you鈥檙e also a consultant at Rosa Mexicano. How important is it for a chef to diversify?
I think it鈥檚 really up to the individual chef. Some people are going to cook one way their whole life, and they鈥檙e never going to change. Some people would be scared to stick in one vein; they would become claustrophobic. When I give cooking classes to people, what I say is, always try to get outside your comfort zone. Try to challenge yourself.
Is that the key to your success? To go outside of your comfort zone?
Maybe in a way. I鈥檓 never satisfied with what I do. I鈥檓 always hyper self-critical. I think that鈥檚 what drives me along. Like a person who makes fried chicken and makes it the same way every time; that鈥檚 boring to me. How can you be satisfied with that? I remember when I was at Chez Panisse, we used to sit around late at night and drink champagne (we always drank champagne) and talk about food and how important it was to re-imagine it. Try to always think out of the box.
Does that come from within you?
It comes from within, but it also comes from without, because I think you have to have stimuli. I always say the ingredients talk to me. I know that sounds weird, but they do. I also think that it鈥檚 important to learn from your colleagues. That鈥檚 why I love young chefs. I love going to see the people that take risks and do crazy stuff. I love breaking rules.
What advice do you have for young chefs?
Know yourself. Know who you are. Know your strengths. Know your limitations and don鈥檛 try to exceed those things. Ask a gazillion questions. When I first got into New York, Andr茅 Soltner was my mentor, he taught me everything. Where do you get this, where do you get that, how much did you pay for this, how much should I not pay for this? He was fantastic. And you have to be humble. If you鈥檙e cocky, it ain鈥檛 going to work.
I think lastly, the most important thing, which is hard, is you have to be able to be honest when you make a mistake鈥搇ive with it and change. Don鈥檛 get freaked out by mistakes, mistakes are okay. Everybody makes them, we all do. I was always taught that the greatest science came from mistakes and the ability to think about things and try them out and if they backfire, they backfire. I think with cooking if you play it too safe people will just get bored. I really do.
So then what is the key to longevity in this industry?
My career has been blessed. I just had my 62nd birthday and, you know it鈥檚 really been an amazing thing. I was a musician for a long time, and I really think the reason musicians live long and interesting lives is that they just love what they do. And I think cooking is the same way. You won鈥檛 become rich, but you鈥檒l be happy.
